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Hear No Evil…

Posted March 25th, 2011 by Lesley Hazleton

As Syrian government forces fired again today on protestors in Dara’a, Latakia, and other cities, the NYT’s Nick Kristof posted these two tweets, which are haunting me.  The hashtag was #Syrianfear.

I backpacked through Hama, Syria, in 1982 after the massacres there. The old city in front was just rubble, but a tourist office remained.
“What happened?” I asked, pointing to the 50 acres of rubble. “I don’t see anything,” the man said. “Nothing happened.”
—-
(Hama, north of Damascus, was the site of a government massacre of Islamist opponents to the Ba’ath regime.  Since all information was suppressed, there are only estimates of the numbers of dead, ranging from 10,000 to nearly 40,000.  Either way, it was one of the largest assaults by an Arab government against its own people in the modern Middle East.  Chemical weapons were reportedly used, and the city center then razed.  For more on the Hama massacre, see Robert Fisk’s Pity the Nation.)
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File under: Middle East, war | Tagged: Tags: Dara'a, Hama, Latakia, massacre, Nick Kristof, Robert Fisk, Syria | 19 Comments
  1. Lana says:
    March 25, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    Thank you Lesley … today as we watch the news the ghosts of those who were massacred in Hama haunted us … how can one forget when the murder is still going on … today a protestor was killed in amman (jordan) the scene was horrofying … young people asking for “some” reform were beaten … freedom is sure costly

  2. T.I says:
    March 26, 2011 at 3:08 am

    with no Zion(not Jewish), yes there is no Evil…

    • Lesley Hazleton says:
      March 26, 2011 at 9:18 am

      So I guess the Ba’athists are Zionists, and Qaddafi is a Zionist, and Hitler and Satan and any other arch-evil figures you can find — Zionists all. Another grand conspiracy. Ca s’explique.

  3. mohammed sheta says:
    March 26, 2011 at 3:15 am

    thanks lesley, i think what surprises me is that arab leaders act in the same way today and think that under those ”revolutionary” conditions they can get away with it. perhaps the syrian regime was smart enough this time and is actually trying to respond to the people’s needs before its too late. arabs represent 40% of all oppressive regimes in the world today. even israel which is apparently democratic was built on the oppression of other people. i feel i have discovered that for the first time we are not weak and we can change the world around us.everyone will be a moses from now on.

  4. Chad Tabba says:
    March 26, 2011 at 8:02 pm

    I hate conspirational talk. I think Middle Easterners keep blaming Zionism for everything, which is pathetic. I think people have had a defeatist lazy attitude for decades, and keep trying to blame zionism. I dont think Zionism really needed to do much at all to push its agenda (if there is such a thing). Others have blamed freemasonry too. Just sad.

    Finally now, people are waking up and realizing the only way to grow and find their place in the world is to strive for democracy, freedom, education, industrialization, and economic growth. Land borders, walls, occupation, etc. dont matter anymore. In today’s world, you’re only as important as your economy is.

    This is a new Renessaince. A new industrial revolution just like Europe in the 18th and 19th century, but it is economic and its happening in the 21st century in the Middle East.

    And its effect is being seen all over the world. Did anyone hear about the demonstrators in Wisconsin last month and the clashes in England yesterday too? People protesting budget cuts. People are waking up from the daze and distraction of reality TV, new electronics, sporting events and video games. Changes in Tunisia, Egypt, etc have made people everwhere realize that they can make a difference, that they need to be involved and scream for their rights. Big companies will not rule the world. But maybe I’m too optimistic.

  5. Rana says:
    March 27, 2011 at 7:38 pm

    Where has this term “islamist” come from? Is it a correlation between Islam and terrorists? I watched a clip the other day regarding an EDL(english defence ;eague) protest with one supporter calling for the removal of muslamist laws?

    • Lesley Hazleton says:
      March 28, 2011 at 11:59 am

      Good question. Nobody talks about Christists or Judaists. I know I have books on it, but no time to consult them right now, so off the top of my head, I’d say it was a right-wing confusion of all Islam with extremist theopolitical Islam — i.e. again, that lack of ability to differentiate among the innumerable strains of Islam, conflating them all into the most extreme one. But again, that’s just the top of my head. Will look into it further.

      By the way, if Sharia is banned, then Roman Catholic Church law should be banned on the same grounds, and Jewish halacha also. Obviously I have no affinity for any of the three, but either you ban them all, or you ban none.

  6. Chad Tabba says:
    March 28, 2011 at 5:30 pm

    Lesley, while I agree that using the word Islamist may be a confused expression referring to extreme theopolitical islam, there is a christist and judeist form, they have different names, but may be seen in evangelical Christianity (of the “Graham” and “Pat Robertson” type), and the Israeli extremist Judaism, and their Judeo-Christian alliance. Main differences from “Islamists” is that the JudeoChristians rule, and control media, while Islamists are based in poor (or poorly educated) third world countries, where if they are brainwashed long enough by extreme extremists, might use violent actions which may be called terroristic. These actions are bound to be more negatively viewed to the Murdochian media than violence in the other direction. Power equals control which equals your opinion being right. Am I being to judgmental here? Is it wrong to say that in this day and age, an American, European, or Israeli life are more precious than an African or Arab persons life? It’s all relative, all about perception. As sad as that may be. That’s why something was named Islamist. Am I making sense?

    • Lesley Hazleton says:
      March 28, 2011 at 5:54 pm

      Chad — yes and no (well, what else did you expect from me?!). I think you’re right re the Islamism=terrorism equation — though as you say, that equation is sometimes true. My main problem is less with the image than with the content of Islamism — i.e. Islam as a theopolitical system:
      1. the insistence that mosque and state be the same
      2. the astonishing range of influences on Islamist/Salafist thinking, from medieval dogma to 20th-century Marxism
      3. the peculiar Salafi nostalgia for the caliphate of the first four caliphs (literally, successors to Muhammad), which I find hard to understand since three of them were assassinated (two by Muslims), and the longest-reigning of them (Uthman) ran a clearly nepotistic and corrupt regime. To put it as mildly as I can, I see no advantage in yearning for a return to those days — especially now, when the Middle East has finally risen up against nepotism and corruption.

      • Chad Tabba says:
        March 28, 2011 at 6:48 pm

        I agree, that is another important difference from extremist Judaism or Christianity. Your 3 points ultimately lead to a general belief that is pretty widespread, not only among extremists, that Islam is a complete way and system of life, not just a way to worship god. The same educational system, doesn’t really mention the “bad” parts of the history of Islam, such as the issues in the caliphates and the civil wars of early Islam. Not too many Muslims know enough detail about this to realize that Islam as a system of life was BARELY acceptable in the 7th century AD, let alone in the 21st.

  7. Chad Tabba says:
    March 28, 2011 at 5:44 pm

    Having said all that, I am fine with it I guess. When someone has the power, they set the rules. Even if its unfair, The weaker side has just got to live with it till they find a way to become the more powerful side. And thus, you get the rise and fall of civilizations. Its all natural. We may dream of a united world, whose “religion” is humanity and where everyone is equal. But that will remain a dream.

    • Lesley Hazleton says:
      March 28, 2011 at 5:58 pm

      Maybe what we really need is to take away the Islamist claim on all of Islam by coming up with a better word for Islamism. I mean, why concede Islam to its extremists?

      • Chad Tabba says:
        March 28, 2011 at 8:29 pm

        Media has already found a solution for this. They call it “Moderate Islam”. or if its a person its a “moderate Moslem”. I’ve even heard “Modern Moslem”!! That one cracked me up.

  8. Rana says:
    March 28, 2011 at 6:14 pm

    Because that’s what sells today, that’s what makes the ultimate punch line, it was the perfect ideal after 9/11 and for over a decade islam has perhaps become the new “racial/political agenda”, where being “arab” all of a sudden makes you a terrorist, (fyi non-arabs make up more the muslim population than arabs), wearing hijab brings pity on you..all these have somewho fallen under the category being used by cable networks as “islamists”

    A friend of mine was verbally insulted in her place of work simply because she wore the islamic head dress.

    Old lady customer bitterly referring to my hijab: ‘Have you seen the way you look with that thing on your head, you look hideous and you intimidate me’.
    Me:Calmly reply back ‘What is it that intimidates you about me?’
    Old lady: ‘Everything, your a disgrace to the company … you should be fired’.
    Me:’You don’t even know me’.
    Old lady:’I dont need to, your in no position to comment on my point of view about you’.

    Maybe we should all wear signs on our foreheads titled: “Don’t Panic – I’m Islamic”

    • Lesley Hazleton says:
      March 28, 2011 at 6:36 pm

      But the panicky customer clearly had it wrong: you are in such a position, of course, and you just did comment. Good. So long as the hijab is your choice, as it clearly is, I am entirely with you.

      (Point of fact: Arab Muslims are only about 20% of all Muslims worldwide.)

      • Lesley Hazleton says:
        March 28, 2011 at 7:23 pm

        Rana — here’s a stunningly trivial but possibly ironic afterthought: that woman’s intrusive rudeness and judgmentalism suddenly reminded me very much of comments made to me when I was one of the first to wear a miniskirt… and around much the same time, when I decided to cut my hair to an inch long all round (think Jean Seberg in A Bout de Souffle).

      • Chad Tabba says:
        March 28, 2011 at 8:35 pm

        @Rana: I would have liked to call it “ignorance” that the person would treat you like this. But, watching the media and how it presents Islam, and how the average person perceives Islam, its not too surprising, unfortunately. Also depends on where you live in the USA (North vs South, Big city vs. Small town, College town vs. Farm town, etc.).

  9. Chad Tabba says:
    March 28, 2011 at 8:44 pm

    I have one note about this. There is clearly an ignorance of the average American about Islam, leading to the perception that Islam = Islamism = Extremist Islam, which leads to some level of anxiety about Muslims within the American society. I think one factor contributing to this is that I feel that Muslims dont seem to mix within the society as much as other minorities who become more entwined within society. I think both the Moslem and the American communities are responsible for this separation. Does anyone agree with this? and if yes, what do you think is the cause?

  10. Muhtefi says:
    March 30, 2011 at 4:05 pm

    You said “Another grand conspiracy.” I am not able to agree. If we are complaining about extremism, then we should criticize both sides. We should keep in mind that violence exploits the contrary to survive. I dont mean to give history lectures here but take Ottoman Empire, for more than 600 years, people lived in peace. No assasinations, no terrorist bombings took place, other than individual crimes which were unusual. People lived in peace [….]. Racism always creates the counterpart and as you may know, racism is banned in Islam. But what if the oppressed had no other chance since they were only offered this by their dictator regimes? And if they are seeking a saviour, and their saviour is nothing but their death? [….]
    After the Ottoman Empire collapsed, the Mideast was designed by the global powers and all todays regimes were designed by those powers. In every country, like Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Algeria etc. the regimes or dictators were favored by those powers to take place who were only representing the minority of their people. And most of these fictive countries’ borders drawn with a ruler, and the ruler was of course the winners of WWI.
    From the philosophical and ontological point of view, everything that exists, calls for between perfection and decadence which is clearly mentioned in Qoran. Personally I welcome both the perfection and decadence with a mystical approach as I am also one of them. [….] Perfection and decadence! Now guess whose turn is it?
    Cheers

The 50-Minute Video

Posted March 12th, 2011 by Lesley Hazleton

I know you probably don’t have time for this long a video, but for the record, here’s my February 19 keynote speech at the Islamic Center of America in Dearborn, MI — on fundamentalism, stereotyping, and (with suitably Jewish agnostic chutzpah) religion, as well as on the revolutions in Egypt and Tunisia and the effect they may have on American attitudes toward Islam.

The occasion, at the largest Shia mosque in America, was the celebration of the birthday of Muhammad.   The still shot has a somewhat disturbingly preacher look to it, so please tell me I’m not preaching, just talking…

(The sound comes in fully after about 45 seconds.)

[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-hTxDvRVlo]

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File under: Christianity, fundamentalism, Islam, Judaism | Tagged: Tags: After the Prophet, Bahrain, Deuteronomy, Egypt, gospels, highlighter version, Islamophobia, Kaddish, Karbala, Libya, Nick Kristof, nutshell syndrome, Peter King, Quran, Roger Cohen, St Paul, stereotypes, Tariq Ramadan, terrorism, Tunisia, Yemen, zealotry | 49 Comments
  1. Meezan says:
    March 12, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    Being a Muslim, I have read my share of prophet Mohammad’s (s.a.w.w)biographies and siras but I have to say one of my favorite parts of his life was revealed to me recently by Karen Armstrong’s “Muhammad: A Prophet for Our Time”. When the prophet was 19-20 years old (can’t remember exactly) he liked a girl and wanted to marry her but his uncle suggested that he was not in a good financial position to support a wife. This is not much, I know but that revealed a very human side of the prophet to me. I saw him as a flesh and blood person rather than an ever illuminating, floating in the air, long haired, blue eyed guy, and hence putting everything in a new perspective. His teachings now seemed like really good advice rather than an order. His religion a very flexible and tolerant way of life rather than something you have to have to follow.

    Your words are as always, enlightening.

  2. yusong says:
    March 12, 2011 at 5:11 pm

    fantastic, you are a noble female, i admire you very much.

    • Shishir says:
      March 14, 2011 at 6:43 am

      “a noble female” now what is that supposed to mean?

  3. Jonathan Omer-Man says:
    March 12, 2011 at 5:53 pm

    Congratulations! This is wonderful. And aren’t our similar interests dramatically divergent…

    • Lesley Hazleton says:
      March 13, 2011 at 10:58 am

      Or maybe they go round in a huge circle and turn out to be convergent…

  4. Aijaz says:
    March 13, 2011 at 10:58 am

    Bravery is going against the the tide.
    and Lesley has it

  5. Chad Tabba says:
    March 13, 2011 at 6:56 pm

    Wonderful talk Lesley, it brought to mind a couple of ideas I’m thinking of:
    First: Truly, religion’s goal, and the reason religions were formed, was to support the innate striving to be human, to be closer to the ideals of humanity. Thats how and why Sufism seems to be (at least in my mind) in many aspects more similar to buddhism than literal Islam. While Sufism in itself has imperfections as well, I have felt closer to much of what it says (and gnostic christianity) than literal religious belief. The idea that religion and faith comes from the heart, that religion is not about dogma, but about treating others as you would be treated, about forgiveness, and about love (general love not necessarily romantic love). Funny that I would be agnostic and gnostic simultaneously.

    Second: a question/note. I am saddened by the literalist/extremist interpretation of the holy books in general. The holy books have enough subtleness to allow some people to highlight specific words and twist them to support their ideas and take sentences out of context. Why did they have to be so subtle that the average person may be sucked into that literalism? That is my biggest problem with religion; more than trying to believe in a supreme creator, it’s the idea that it takes a higher level of understanding and “brain power” to understand what religion wants us to do. Whats the use if a bigger percentage of people are going to take it wrong and use it to kill each other? Why couldn’t the creator be more clear to lessen the sadness and suffering in the world. Why allow millions to be killed in his/her name? Would love to hear what u think about these 2 points.

    • Aijaz says:
      March 14, 2011 at 6:04 am

      Quran was revealed in single shot on Lailatul Qadr…then it was re-revealed in 23 years with cause and effects and circumstances to make sure people can not misinterperet its verses. The idea that Quran was re-revealed further strengthened that Prophet was warned not to haste but to wait for revelations [….]

      But still we have history and collections of traditions to help us understand the background of revelations in their true spirit. The key to understand Quran is 3:7, which Lesley has pointed out. She is not only eloquent but on the right track. It’s possible she already know more Quran than many of us, she understand the difference between Reader’s Digest and Holy Quran. Sometimes I feel not sure to guide her to some Quranic lead. Chances are she is already there.

      Metaphors are not there to mislead but we can not conceive them in their true interpretations. Tahir ul-Qadri has given a beautiful interpretation on “Judgment Day is near” He says no one knows when is Judgment day but for every individual his judgment day is his death day and tha’ts very near. [….] Metaphor does not mean that we doubt the reality of that day…reality of that Day is literal, nature of that day is allegorical. [….]

      Imam Ali said “You will never know truth and follow the right way unless you know the person who has abandoned it.”

      • Shishir says:
        March 14, 2011 at 7:00 am

        @Aijaz

        If I am not wrong you are Muslim, so I apologize beforehand for possible offense that my remarks may cause you.
        a) It is wrong to believe that Quran was revealed at one go and Mohammed was refrained from making it known at once. There is no real evidence of the fact, an equally plausible explanation is that it was “revealed” as Mohammed was in a position to understand it.
        b) It is also wrong to assume divinity of Quran, it is work of a man for it shows all that is concern of man nothing more nothing less.
        c) The reason why people interpret Quran differently is because Quran is not like a mathematical treatise and hence is ambiguous. The writer of Quran was limited in his/her knowledge because it was limited by what was known at the time. If a religion originates today it will suffer the same limitations perhaps 1600 yrs later.
        d) There can not be just one true religion, if it is can it be demonstrated it is so, unfortunately every holy book claims it and Quran claims it more than others perhaps.

        Now it is possible that I am wrong about some things, and if I am okay. I’ll learn something.

      • Lesley Hazleton says:
        March 14, 2011 at 10:46 am

        Aijaz — It really is time to cool it, and to find some way to acknowledge that you are human, that you do not have a stranglehold on “the truth.” There are many ways to approach this whole matter, and the ways others choose may be as valid and as well-intentioned as yours, no matter how different. As the Quran says, “you have your way, and I have mine.” Mine, as should be clear on this blog, is that there is no such thing as absolute truth, and that it’s precisely this absolutist idea that causes so much conflict. I think it would be far more productive and respectful if you reflected a lot more and judged a lot less.

    • Lesley Hazleton says:
      March 14, 2011 at 10:35 am

      Chad — Simultaneously gnostic and agnostic makes sense to me. In fact I sometimes call myself a gnostic agnostic — and some day, will have to figure out more precisely what I mean by that. You may be ahead of me there.

      But doesn’t your second point kind of undermine the first? It seems to assume the existence of an omnipotent creator with a will — that is, a conventional idea of God. Me, I’m really not into the whole idea of religion or of God ‘wanting’ us to do anything. The idea of a “purpose-driven life” is horribly mechanistic to me, leaving no room for what we were talking about earlier: for mystery, for poetry, for music.

      Sacred texts are really only sacred because human beings have made them so — either because they see them as prescriptions for how to behave, or because they find in them inspiration or an invitation to transcend their own limitations. (Well, and a vast range of possibilities between those two, but you get my point).

      • Chad Tabba says:
        March 14, 2011 at 2:26 pm

        Oh, I agree Lesley. There is a contradiction. My second note was simply me just showing that even if I played devil’s advocate (pun intended) on behalf of literalists, I still couldnt excuse how some extremists act and “misquote” scriptures.

  6. Aijaz says:
    March 14, 2011 at 11:51 am

    Lesley

    I do not have stranglehold on truth but I am entitled to hold my views as other humans have it here like shishir, and I am not offended by his/her dissent.

    I see nothing wrong with sticking to my views with a belief they are true.
    Humane side is to share my views without offending others.

    • Aijaz says:
      March 14, 2011 at 12:25 pm

      @Shshir — You are not wrong I am Muslim. Beauty of any discussion forum is disagreement on issues otherwise its nothing more than exchanging the pleasantries, that may feel good but it serves no purpose. Purpose is served when we understand each other through civilized arguments with logic and common sense.

      I am glad you disagree with my position but unfortunately you did not present your argument instead you posted your opinion and what you believe. [….]

      Isa [Jesus] himself never claimed to have come in the fulfilment of the prophecy about the advent of the promised prophet, nor any other prophet, after him did so, except the Holy Prophet Muhammad al Mustafa.[….] The Christian Church had no alternative but to give currency to the belief in the second advent of Isa. Musa [Moses] and Muhammad were the law-givers, whereas Isa was the follower of the laws preached by Musa.

      Similarities between Muhammad and Musa are many. No two prophets, in historical background, resembled each other more than these two. [….]

      • Shishir says:
        March 14, 2011 at 2:54 pm

        @Aijaz — I am glad that you are not offended by my comments. Your argument is that I’ve only stated my opinion. I beg to differ. I have stated my exact position with regards to revealed religions.Be they Islam, Christianity or Judaism.

        Again I apologize if the following offends you. I do not accept the holy books of these religions as the word of God. These religions were created by men, for fulfilling needs of men living in a certain geographical region, living under certain social-economical conditions. The people all had a shared history, hence the similarity and often concurrence in what they say. It is redundant if Bible, Torah or Quran concur with each other or even that they describe same events.

        I live in India, a country with more diversity than the whole of Europe, and it gives me a unique perspective, which is not to say that you may not possess that perspective, leading me to conclude that certain stories will get adopted, absorbed over a long period of time by people so much so that they may even claim ownership of it. I believe that the history of Islam, Christianity and Judaism are so entwined with the history of middle east that to figure what one has borrowed from other would be a difficult exercise. [….]

        I’d say that Moses, Jesus, and Mohammed were closer to being social reformers than they were “prophets” [….] I can assure you, that if Gandhi, Dr.King, Mandela etc had been born in 500 A.D. they’d have founded major religions too. [….]

  7. Nuno Dias says:
    March 14, 2011 at 7:02 pm

    just dropping again by to say: Wonderful 😉

  8. sa says:
    March 14, 2011 at 9:51 pm

    Lesley, are you a Muslim?…..lets start off with a nice easy one 😉

    • Lesley Hazleton says:
      March 14, 2011 at 10:04 pm

      Maybe read the blog. I’m an agnostic Jew. Firmly agnostic. Firmly Jewish.

      • sa says:
        March 15, 2011 at 4:53 pm

        Sure, But since you submit to a higher Being would mean that you are in a sense a Muslim i.e. one who submits to God. You may not follow the rituals and traditions ascribed to Islam but your principles, I assume, are the one and same and noticeble in your exegesis of the Quran and you can only do that if you have a clean and conscientious heart which the Quran lays as one of its first principles for understanding the Quran.

        • Lesley Hazleton says:
          March 15, 2011 at 5:26 pm

          I’m Jewish by birth, identity, and interest, not by belief, which means I really, honestly, do not ‘believe in’ or submit to any higher being, whether upper or lower case. As close as possible to “a clean and conscientious heart” (and mind) sounds good enough. And a glimpse, here and there, of the mystery of existence.
          So please, just let me be me.
          Maybe see here for more: http://accidentaltheologist.com/2011/01/18/an-agnostic-manifesto-part-one/
          And here: http://accidentaltheologist.com/2011/01/10/the-100th-post-a-non-mission-statement/

      • Chad Tabba says:
        March 15, 2011 at 5:52 pm

        Why won’t people just let agnostic be agnostic. I just hate it when someone wants you to “pick a side”. I hate when people view agnosticism as weak. Or when someone says “I would respect you more if you were atheist or religious than agnostic”. Why is someone’s personal belief such an issue for everyone to interfere with? I think people miss the idea of what a “jewish agnostic” or “muslim agnostic” means. It means that the person is agnostic from a belief standpoint, but from a birth and family event standpoint, they may follow what their culture has them do. Just like americans celebrate Thanksgiving, I would (as a muslim agnostic) celebrate Ramadan and eid, even though I am agnostic from a god belief standpoint. If someone can’t grasp that concept, how will they grasp the concept of gnostic agnostic?

      • sa says:
        March 15, 2011 at 8:04 pm

        Lesley Hazleton, you are you although Agnostic is someone who is doubtful, non comittal to God or not sure whether you are a theist or a non theist, so I was asking. Point made, looking forward to see what you have to say about faith of people who believe in a God.

        Chad Tabba relax , take a deep breath. No one is out to change you or Leslie. Just trying to understand and now I even understand what a gnostic agnostic theist atheist. Who Knew!

  9. sa says:
    March 14, 2011 at 10:03 pm

    Lesley, whats your take on the following verses:

    Surah 4:34

    Surah 4:157 – 158

    Sorry to put you on the spot but nows your chance to really shine 😉

  10. Lesley Hazleton says:
    March 14, 2011 at 10:08 pm

    Re 4:34, its another of those better-if-you-don’t things. I think what most Muslims think: it may have been acceptable for a man to beat his wife in the seventh century; it sure as hell isn’t today.
    Re 4:157-8: I don’t need to be exonerated of killing Jesus by the Quran any more than I need it from Ratzinger. Though the Quran did beat him to it by 14 centuries.

    • sa says:
      March 15, 2011 at 5:11 pm

      LOL, oh come’on Lesley. You know when you read the ayah/verse 4:,34 it makes no sense. I mean first you tell your wife off, and if she still does not listen you leave her bed chamber and then if she still does not listen you beat her? How about BEATING a retreat and not BEAT about the bush and say cya! The Reformist Quran by Edip Yuksel explains some of the questionable interpretations.

      and now to 4:157. You know this is where you make friends or enemies. So you are wise not to answer it. There is only one interpretation of this verse and that is that Jesus was not raised into the Heavens nor was he killed on the cross but made to appear so (no doubt by some gall and vinegar) and ultimatley survived. I can and have been called a heretic for making such remarks nay whole schools that profess have. At least in Judaism, I can still be a Jew and not believe in the Prophets. Oh well I will leave this one for someone who wants to challenge it.

      • Chad Tabba says:
        March 15, 2011 at 6:03 pm

        I think the idea is not trying to interpret specific surahs without knowing the specific context. I don’t understand what “sa” is trying to prove with these questions. Are you trying to give us proof that there are (for lack of a better word) “unsavory” verses in the Koran that may be used out of context (or in context) to be harmful? Lesley is obviously not saying that the Koran is a book from god, but she is just saying that it gets a bad reputation due to a minority of people who take verses out of context and that it is no more violent than other scriptures. I think that for someone who knows the Koran, that point is undisputable. What the Koran says or doesnt say about Jesus (if he existed to start with) is insignificant.

      • sa says:
        March 15, 2011 at 9:31 pm

        On the contrary @Chad Tabba, that is precisely the point. You have to explore the specific context in order to understand the verse. The problem is that certain verses are intepreted by both Christian and Muslim fundamentalists to advance their own violent agenda as Lesley has pointed out. But I would also argue that traditional Muslim thinking supporting the creation theory is also unfounded in the Quran [….] People then believe that AntiChrist is a one eyed monster running around the Earth and that Jesus will come back and battle it. Some Muslim scholars and clergy believe that a great final battle will take place between good and evil. This type of thinking goes against the ethos of the Quran.

        Also I don’t believe that Lesley is saying that the Quran is violent but rather that God in the Quran discourages violence. I therefore disagree with you that the Quran is violent or promotes violence. As a Muslim, I try not to allow the dynamics of a culture dictate my faith only to then have doubts about a God – but each to their own.

        Finally, all major traditional faiths have prophecized about a future Kalki, Soashoyant, maitreya, Messiah, Jesus, Isa. [….] Over 50% of the worlds population follow a faith tradition that is expecting a savior. If all are waiting then this can only be fulfilled in one person who would unite all peoples and he/she does not have to make a grand entrance by dropping in from the sky. It’s quite possible that this savior comes from the people.

      • Chad Tabba says:
        March 16, 2011 at 8:39 am

        Seems you misunderstood me sa. In my comments about “what are you trying to prove” I was referring to you not Lesley. I didn’t see the point in bringing up that first surah. I understand Lesley and what she thinks very well, and she expresses many things I think about too, but expresses them in a very interesting way.
        As for the other surah about Jesus, reading many sources has showed my that the whole idea of death and rebirth of a savior born of a Virgin mother etc. (in any form, and regardless of each religion’s details about how it happened) is an idea that was also there in ancient Egypt even before Judaism. Its more about rebirth of the human soul after the person finds and understands his/her deep self. Whether there was an actual Jesus and the details of when and how he may have died and if he will return are irrelevant. We need to understand the idea behind the story.

      • sa says:
        March 17, 2011 at 4:14 pm

        I was interested to know what her understanding of sura 4:34 was. Just as she explained Sura 2:191 in her speech, which BTW, is also how Islamic scholars have understood these verses to mean.

        Agreed Sura 4:157 is irrelevent to Lesley.

      • hossam says:
        March 27, 2011 at 4:36 am

        @sa
        i am not posting to discuss this but just to make a correction
        4:157-8 says that jesus was not killed and was not crucified and WAS raised by God

      • sa says:
        March 27, 2011 at 8:15 pm

        @hossam, you just did and here is my response.

        No mistake, verse 4:157 does not mean that Jesus was raised in body or soul. It also does not mean that he was slain or crucified but was made to appear as if he was but actually survived.

        5:117 plainly states that Jesus died a natural death.

        3:144 says that all Messengers before Mohammed (SAW) passed away. That would also include the prophet Isa (AS). Abu Bakr, used this verse to convince the companions on the death of the Holy Prophet that he indeed had died just like messengers before him meaning that no one was immortal.

  11. MZ says:
    March 15, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    Hello Lesley,

    It’s your annoying camera-man here. Yes, we finally got it up and working on YouTube. I want to thank you once again for the talk, I heard a lot of good feedback from our community and we really enjoyed it.

    Peace

    • Lesley Hazleton says:
      March 15, 2011 at 12:36 pm

      Hey MZ — thanks for the work! Am amazed and delighted people are watching it. — L.

  12. Nabi says:
    March 16, 2011 at 8:30 am

    Well said Lesley. I enjoyed every minute, even though it did take me two sessions since last night to watch this. I had started taking notes last night on my wife’s laptop but after finished watching it now i decided no to look at those notes but rather comment on just one thing i picked out today and that is when you said not aiming for a perfect future. I personally in my life would rather think of it as not aiming for a Utopia in life where everyone is a perfect muslim but rather aim more for the perfection of truth and justice in human relations. I personally could care less if a person chooses to pray or have an ‘Islamic’ appearance and all the other bells and whistles that go w/ religion. My main concern is that we don’t do the bad/and wrong against each other rather than enforcing the obligatory practices which indeed are only between an individual and God. The prophet was told he was sent to send glad tidings (for the followers) and warning (for the astray) and not to run peoples lives. and not to yearn when they do not accept the correct path because even then only God guides those who wish to be guided.

    • Lesley Hazleton says:
      March 16, 2011 at 8:44 am

      A big ‘Amen’ from the unguided!

      • Nabi says:
        March 16, 2011 at 9:20 am

        I take that ‘unguided’ as sarcasm, because no one is misguided so long as they follow the good that is programed in them. After all isn’t that the object of religion to hone us into following our good instincts?

        • Lesley Hazleton says:
          March 16, 2011 at 9:41 am

          Not sarcasm. Irony.

  13. Ammar says:
    March 16, 2011 at 9:00 am

    We love you Lesley, offcource we have time to see your 50 min video.

  14. Ammar says:
    March 16, 2011 at 9:06 am

    Dont forgot people of Bahrain, they in a new Karbala,
    they need help ….. please

    • Lesley Hazleton says:
      March 16, 2011 at 4:08 pm

      I wish we could help. It’s a nightmare there right now.

  15. Cosima says:
    March 17, 2011 at 2:59 am

    Lesley I applaud your efforts. I will always have time to listen to your talks. Your wit and intelligence, thoughtfulness and perceptiveness are a breath of fresh air. Also, I just love your hat 🙂

  16. AJ says:
    March 17, 2011 at 5:53 am

    Thanks Lesley

  17. BF says:
    March 21, 2011 at 3:20 am

    As a muslim – thank you for this vdo. In addition to your excellent insight on Quranic expression and meaning – thank you for your political perspectives.

    Looking at conservatives on both sides of the divide as followers of a similar religion is something I have thought about, but never been able to express as eloquently as you have.

  18. Jesus says:
    March 22, 2011 at 11:21 pm

    [This came in to my spam file, but for the sake of light relief, I couldn’t resist running it. After all, how often do you get email from ‘Jesus@heaven.com’? — Lesley.]

    Jesus was song of God and a Jew, all prophets and even Jesus were Jew, God did not send anybody after Christ…its in word of God!

  19. Sarah Conover says:
    March 28, 2011 at 10:33 am

    Really appreciated the considered talk, Lesley. I like that you opened discourse, rather than shut it down. It wasn’t as if I was left with more questions or answers than before, but I was left with more curiosity. Thank you!

  20. Shahrin says:
    March 29, 2011 at 11:27 pm

    Hello Ms. Hazleton,

    I just wanted to extend my heartfelt gratitude for this resonating, and insightful speech. I hope you have tailored similar versions to non-Muslim audiences as well; that being said, I also enjoyed your talk on TED.

    Along a similar vein, as a Muslim college student, I have cast some light in interfaith circles with the intent of enlightening and sharing with others about the dynamics of Islam, as well as its very basic tenets that create its backbone.

    With your positive influence, coupled with inspirational scholars such as the late Edward Said and Karen Armstrong, I have lived gained, in light of Ben Zoma’s teachings, wisdom by learning from all people. This is the kind of plurality that I believe Islam embraces, especially for the imagination (as you referred to in this video). The more I have found myself feeding my soul with discourse, and newly processed information coming from a diverse spectrum, the more Muslim I feel, the closer I feel to the beautiful messages of the Qur’an.

    I’ve recently dedicated myself to writing small pieces, essays to properly establish my thoughts in formal, comprehensive order over concepts and tiers of the Qur’an that I happen to intrigue myself with at a particular moment. I hope that as I continue, I may reach a deeper understanding of my faith. Thank you for being an inspiration, and a contributing catalyst on my religious journey.

    Shahrin,

  21. Lana says:
    April 4, 2011 at 5:51 am

    You inspire me … a beautiful talk

  22. Talia says:
    May 9, 2012 at 9:14 pm

    50 mins! and I thoroughly enjoyed it all. Thank you Lesley! I’m a muslim (the degree of submission or islam, I feel is a very subjective matter but if one has to put a label on it, I think of myself as being quite religious) and that’s why it’s so refreshing to hear someone speak as you do – with the objectivity of the outsider.

    But what I found delightful, in additional to your graceful and inimical style with its wonderful touches of wry humor,was both the empathy and open-mindedness especially as they seem to be rooted in quite a deep well of knowledge which you do not hesitate to divest of its traditional interpretations, and so allow it the flexibility which is its due.

    Dare I say that it reaffirms my own beliefs – which I know is not your intent – but there it is, none the less! Again, thanks!

    Talia

    • Lesley Hazleton says:
      June 2, 2012 at 9:49 am

      Thanks Talia. True, not my intent, but there’s a gentle irony to it that makes us both smile.

Courage Is Infectious

Posted February 4th, 2011 by Lesley Hazleton

The magnificence of it!

After two days of concerted attacks by plain-clothes security police and paid goons armed with guns, machetes, whips, batons, and nail-studded maces;  after the coordinated attempt of the Mubarak regime to intimidate protestors, to stop news coverage by arresting and roughing up journalists, and to create the appearance of chaos, this:

The largest protest crowds so far.

And not only in Cairo.  In every Egyptian city.  All calling for Mubarak to step down.  Now.  And all peaceful.

Courage, it turns out, is infectious:  One of the two lead anchors of a government TV station quit to join the protestors, as did the station’s manager, declaring themselves unable to keep up  the hypocrisy;  the head of the Arab League arrived in Tahrir Square to speak to protestors;  even the government turned up in person, when the minister of defense came to ‘review the troops’ and also spoke with protestors, signaling at least a degree of support.

The violence that was designed to keep people away from public protest seems instead to have reinforced their determination.  And here, halfway round the world in Seattle, I am amazed and humbled and inordinately grateful for their courage.

I’m aware that however much I’m feeling, it’s a tiny fraction of what the vast majority of Egyptians are feeling, both in Egypt and abroad — a fraction of what all those living under Middle Eastern dictatorships are feeling as they remain glued, as I am, to the live feeds of news organizations such as Al Jazeera and, amazingly, the most powerful and irrepressible news update of all, Twitter feeds — from rights organizations like Human Rights Watch (@hrw), from reporters like Nicolas Kristof (@NickKristof), and from Egyptian activists on the ground (check my RTs at @accidentaltheo for some of them).

I’m riding an emotional roller coaster of empathy and hope, but it’s the people in the squares and streets of Egypt who are, literally, placing their lives on the line.

Would you?  Would I?  Do we have any idea how much we take for granted what others are willing to die for?

Whatever happens in Egypt in the next few days, watch, follow it closely, spread the news, and be awed — and inspired — by the infectious power of courage.

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File under: Middle East | Tagged: Tags: Al Jazeera, courage, Egypt, freedom, Human Rights Watch, Mubarak, Nick Kristof, Tahrir Square, thugs, Twitter | 3 Comments
  1. Lana says:
    February 5, 2011 at 2:16 am

    I am glued to aljazeera … totally in an emotional roller coaster … hope is infectious … i just fear what this oppressive gonverment has in its sleeve … today we heard about gas pipes exploding … i fear a very well known senario that might drag the whole country into “real” chaos … they have many cards to play .. terrorism is one
    as noam chomsky said (my words) it’s not going to be easy there is so much instake in egypt

  2. Lynn Rosen says:
    February 7, 2011 at 10:38 pm

    Check out Aj Jazeera English for the real news from the Middle East at this link:

    http://www.livestation.com/channels/3-al_jazeera_english

  3. Lynn Rosen says:
    February 7, 2011 at 10:39 pm

    Check out Al Jazeera English for the real news from the Middle East at this link:

    http://www.livestation.com/channels/3-al_jazeera_english

And Now, The Thugs

Posted February 2nd, 2011 by Lesley Hazleton

It’s such a heady proposition:  an end to dictatorial regimes in the Middle East, a newly empowered citizenry, the prospect of real democracy.  As Nick Kristof tweeted early on, Innaharda, ehna kullina Misriyeen — “today, we are all Egyptians.”

El-Baradei says Mubarak has until Friday to get on the plane and leave Egypt.  But it seems he’s not going to fade gently into the good night.  “I wish it could be done so gently,” wrote one commenter on my previous post, rightly sceptical of my optimism.

And now, the thugs.  And the specter, after ten days of exhilarating hope, of heartbreak.

The thugs are in Cairo’s Tahrir Square as I write, described absurdly by the New York Times and other news organizations as “Mubarak supporters.”  The NYT should read its own The Lede blog, which reports that they are plain-clothes police and paid provocateurs, and that ten bucks a day is the going rate.

Nick Kristof details the menace of them:

I’ve been spending hours on Tahrir today, and it is absurd to think of this as simply “clashes” between two rival groups. The pro-democracy protesters are unarmed and have been peaceful at every step. But the pro-Mubarak thugs are arriving in buses and are armed — and they’re using their weapons.

In my area of Tahrir, the thugs were armed with machetes, straight razors, clubs and stones. And they all had the same chants, the same slogans and the same hostility to journalists. They clearly had been organized and briefed. So the idea that this is some spontaneous outpouring of pro-Mubarak supporters, both in Cairo and in Alexandria, who happen to end up clashing with other side — that is preposterous. It’s difficult to know what is happening, and I’m only one observer, but to me these seem to be organized thugs sent in to crack heads, chase out journalists, intimidate the pro-democracy forces and perhaps create a pretext for an even harsher crackdown.

Now Al-Jazeera‘s live feed shows them throwing Molotov cocktails at the anti-Mubarak protestors, and heavy rocks from the rooftops.  They’re beating up journalists, and on the hunt in particular for Al-Jazeera reporters.  There have been several more deaths, and many serious injuries.

Mubarak’s speech last night gave the option of chaos without him (the old apres-moi-le-déluge) or stability with him.  But the only chaos is with him.

I still hope against hope, but the memories I’ve been struggling against rise up threateningly:  Iran’s “green revolution” of 2009 brutally put down;  Tianenmen Square in 1989, brutally put down;  the ousting of the Shah in 1979, taken over by a theocracy and turned into yet another dictatorial regime.

As the call goes out for even larger demonstrations in Egypt on Friday, with a march on the presidential palace, it comes down, it seems, to the military.  Which way will they go?  If the march on the palace does take place, what will they do?

Will they fire on the marchers?  Or will there be a military coup, with the army openly taking over?  (And if so, would the generals assume power themselves, or hand over to a civilian interim government?)   Or will Mubarak — I’m sorry, I can’t help it, I insist on hoping — finally get on the damn plane?

I watch with tears in my eyes, battling the despair creeping up in my heart, wishing, hoping against hope…

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File under: Middle East | Tagged: Tags: Egypt, Egyptian military, El-Baradei, Mubarak, Nick Kristof, Tahrir Square, thugs | 4 Comments
  1. Michael Kimt says:
    February 2, 2011 at 10:00 am

    Mubarak must be an idiot for only this explains his actions. Just take shutting down internet. Didn’t it force more people going to streets? Or his decidedness now. He’s digging himself a grave!

  2. Lana says:
    February 2, 2011 at 11:07 am

    I too am watching with tears in my eyes and a heart that is aching … but there always should be hope as you said … and people there are determined ..

  3. sb says:
    February 2, 2011 at 2:15 pm

    Dictators are a case study in narcissisim writ extra large.

    Perhaps we can understand and have sympathy for people who live under these kinds of regimes and who, out of the need to preserve their families and the little stability they have, try to live with the status quo however awful and oppressive.

    Maybe we can see the day to day bravery of people in places like Iran who live with the beast and are try with all their might not to unleash it depravity on their loved ones. I don’t know what the answer is, but worldwide outcry from the mouths of leaders who say they value democracy and freedom could be a place to start.

  4. nuzhat says:
    February 2, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    all the same sentiments of despair are shared here too.
    May Allah show the right and peaceful way out of the turmoil.
    material and spiritual progress of mankind lies only in unity across all the people of the world.

Is Christopher Hitchens Running for Pope?

Posted April 18th, 2010 by Lesley Hazleton

“New atheists” Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins are having a ball with the pedophile priest scandal — it seems to prove everything they’ve ever said about the evils of religion.

It’s disturbing enough that anyone at all is having a ball with this ghastly issue, though maybe that’s inevitable when the Hitchens-Dawkins style of atheism has all the hallmarks of being a religion of its own.  But worse is that their call for the Pope to resign smacks more than a little of… well, to be kind, disingenuousness.  To be less kind, hypocrisy.

If you don’t believe in medicine, you’re hardly going to call for a better doctor.  If H and D really believe all they say about the evils of religion, then there’s no way they could imagine that a change of Pope could make any difference, especially when nobody in the upper reaches of Churchly hierarchy seems capable of plain human feeling — capable, that is, of expressing pure unadulterated outrage that such things have been done under the guise (literally) of priestly robes.

I don’t question H and D’s outrage,  but while most of us are watching this unfold with horror, they can barely contain their glee.

I wish I could feel that glee, but I’m with Nick Kristof on the Op-Ed page of today’s New York Times, talking about “the other Catholic church.”  This is the “grass-roots church” of nuns and priests working with the poor, the sick, and the needy both in the States and worldwide.  “Their magnificence,” writes Kristof, “lies not in their vestments, but in their selflessness.”

Maybe H and D could learn just a bit from that selflessness.   They’ve leapt on the bandwagon of scandal with no apparent purpose other than self-promotion.

Or maybe Hitchens is running for Pope?

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File under: agnosticism, atheism, Christianity | Tagged: Tags: atheism, Catholic Church, Christopher Hitchens, Nick Kristof, pedophilia, Pope, Richard Dawkins | 1 Comment
  1. lavrans says:
    April 27, 2010 at 10:19 pm

    Makes me think about the Catholic priests who used to come in and help us at Chicken Soup Brigade. CSB, as an AIDS charity, was filled with a lot of the alternative community. Yet Catholic Community Services used the same space for their meals on wheels, and there was a lot of crossover of help. We would regularly get Catholic groups- from adults to teenagers to nuns-in-training.

    One of my most amusing memories was Valentines day, when someone hired “Leather Santa” to come and people got their pictures taken sitting on his lap. Leather Santa was a very fit young man in leather boots, leather G-string with a whip and a Santa cap. Meanwhile a group of travelling nuns show up to help in the warehouse just as one of the priests was getting his picture taken. There was a certain amount of blushing, but also a lot of laughing.

    I can sympathize with the skepticism of religion, but not the heart of it. It’s too easy to mistake the bureaucracy of religion as its foundation.

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